wraith & switch's Ever The Same discussion thread

[switch842]

Hey, Wraith!! I wanted to make a general post where we can discuss the remaking of "Ever the Same." One central place for our thoughts and communications. Since I finished the last vid I was working on (to be released soon), I thought I would put this one next on the list.

I've organized our previous discussion behind the cut and then we can add to it as we see fit. No hurry or anything. Just whenever. :-)


April 18

Switch: Free like water - the edit is just awkward on this. But I can't think of any watery clips. Maybe something from Watergate? But they weren't really together much there...
Wraith: I agree re: free like water, but I can't think of anything that would work in its place. It definitely needs to be Daniel after Jack's "we would stand in the wind" Maybe we could go metaphorical here? *ponders*

Switch: Both been shaken - again, just an awkward edit. We might be able to use the same clip but get the editing better.
Wraith: Also agree on "both been shaken" - I like the *idea* of the clip, but the execution could be better. I'm trying to think of a clip where they'd both be kinda upset, but I can't think of anything at the moment.

Switch: 2nd "Just let me hold you" etc (Serpent's Grasp) - The clip is LONG. I like the use of the clip here, but I think it needs to be split with something else?
Wraith: OH YES. I'm thinking it would probably work if "just let me hold you" was the same, switch to a new clip for "while you're falling apart", back to the hand on the face for "just let me hold you" and bring in a new clip right at the beginning of "we'll both fall down"
The best I can think of right not for "falling apart" would be either Abyss or Meridian, but we used a bunch of those already (quintessential J/D eps, y/y? lol)

Switch: Carry all your weight - Again, I like using The Light here, but it's a REALLY LONG sequence. Any thoughts?
Wraith:
Carry all your weight - I think maybe for that line, move to the quick shot from Evolution pt 2 where Jack's holding Daniel up b/c of his leg, then switch up to The Light for "you're no burden"? Or the other way around. The Evolution clip's already near the end, but moving it would free up a few beats for a new S9/10 clip

Wraith: I kinda wish there had been something better to use for "we were drawn from the weeds" - I kinda feel like maybe the first clip really needs to have both J&D visible in it.

April 26
Switch
I just watched and took notes this time. There are an awful lot of clips from the same episodes. And considering how much we have to work with, it seems a bit odd. But like you mentioned earlier, they are some of the quintessential J/D episodes. LOL Here's the count:
Fifth Race - 2 clips
Meridian - 3 clips, 2 of which are kind of long and the first 2 are close together in the edit
Abyss - 2 clips
Children of the Gods - 2 clips
Lost City - 4 clips (!!)
Serpent's Lair - 2 clips (one might be Within the Serpent's Grasp, but I tend to think of them as one ep)
Prisoners - 2 clips

Some other possible clips to be replaced or re-edited:
1st "Just let me hold you": Need - clip is long. Add in an additional scene to break it up?
2nd "Tell me everything you want me to be": The Other Side - I think this clip goes on too long. I like it for the first bit. Maybe find an additional clip for the "Forever in you..." bit
2nd "I'll be there for you": Lifeboat - this one's just kind of meh. It works, but we might be able to find something better.
2nd "Forever it's you": Absolute Power. LOVE this bit, I just think it needs to be clipped down and maybe another bit found for that musical interlude bit?
"You tide me over": I'm not too happy with this one, either. Like Lifeboat, it works OK, but could be better.


Here are possible additional episodes for use:
Sacrifices - nice bit of them walking through hall at the beginning (might be too similar to Prometheus Unbound clip, though)
Origin
The Shroud (possibly replacement for Evolution 2 in ending montage)
Rising Pt 1??
Broca Divide - the fight in the gateroom
Message in a Bottle - isn't there a bit when Daniel goes in to talk to Jack when he's stuck to the wall?
Serpent's Song - general back & forth in briefing room

Comments

[wraith816.livejournal.com]

Good idea!

Just notes as watching, clip by clip. Mostly just random thoughts; not necessarily stuff we need to change.

- any other good credits effects?
- I still kinda want J&D closeup in earlier, maybe in "brave like soldiers"?
- I really like how "falling down in the pale moonlight" came out
- "holding me like a someone broken" I still love the clip choice.
- "I couldn't tell you" I think this one works because that scene has the sort of same feel as a confession, but the next Meridian clip I think works even better, so this one could be changed/moved more than the other, I think
- "just let me hold you" a bit long, but necessary, I think. Maybe if we cut it at "and we'll both fall down"?

- "fall on me" - could we get this just a couple of seconds earlier in the ep, so we could get more of Daniel's falling motion?
- "tell me everything" the clip's okay. not one of my faves, but it works
- "forever with you forever in me" I like this one - that sense of "forever" that comes from the clip
- "ever the same" HEE. This one makes me smile.

- "stand in the wind" still kinda meh about this, but it's the best we've got, I think
- "free like water" - still trying to think about something potentially metaphorical. lol
- "flowing down under the warmth of the sun" seems to come in just a tiny bit early. I do like the Abydos clip tho
- "it's cold and we're scared" - I love how this one turned out with the shift in focus from Jack's face to Daniel's. This is one I definitely don't wanna change.
- "both been shaken" - still not quite sure what to do with this one
- "this doesn't need to be the end" I do like this clip, but it is kinda close to the previous Lost City shot
- "just let me hold you" I think the break up of the clip I suggested before would still work, as long as we can think of something good to stick there in the middle

- "fall on me" is okay, I guess.
- the other side clip is really long. potential break up - "tell me everything you want me to be" leave as is, change "forever with you" to another clip, back to "forever in me" for the hands and the quick look back and forth, change for "ever the same"
- "call on me" is fine
- I agree on the meh for Lifeboat. Maybe a good place for a late-series clip? Origin, perhaps?
- "forever it's you" I like Jack popping up with the flower, but I think Daniel coming in on "forever" isn't as great. I do like the flip back to Daniel for "forever in me". as soon as "ever the same" is over, it should change to a new clip

- "you may need me there" balcony is good
- "carry all your weight" I still say Evolution
- "you're no burden" can switch back to Jack carrying Daniel through the gate
- "you tide me over" I like Daniel's look at Jack, maybe go a few seconds earlier into the clip so we get that look on "you tide me over" then switch to something new for "a warmth I'll not forget" - ooooh, maybe that one could be the shot near the end of what ep was that, homecoming, where Jack leaves Daniel looking at the gate?
- "but I can only give you love" I'd start this clip maybe just a beat or so later so it doesn't look so long

- "fall on me" yeah, I know, lots of Lost City, but this one kinda needs to be there for the falling motion
- "tell me everything you want me to be" good clip, though I think it flips to Jack's face just a little too quickly
- "forever with you" the time loop reference makes me giggle. hee
- "forever in me" like this one
- "ever the same" is fine
- "call on me" love this one for Jack's desperate look
- "I'll be there for you" maybe switch away from Abyss for "You'll be there for me"? (A Shroud clip, maybe?)
- "forever it's you" like that one
- "forever in me" *snerk* also makes me giggle
- "ever the same" LOVE THIS and the timing is great
- "forever with you" again, lots of Meridian, but I do think this kinda captures the feel the best. I dunno. *shrug*
- I would switch to a new clip when it says "ever the same" - that wormhole is there just a tad too long

- I absolutely love how this part towards the end came out. yeah, another Lost City clip, but that has some great movement (can you tell I like motion? lol)

2nd part, comment got long

[wraith816.livejournal.com]

Sacrifices, Message in a Bottle, Serpent's Song - can't place the clips off the top of my head, unfortunately
Origin - yes, I'd love to see that in there
Shroud - suggested a point where it might work
Rising - oooh, yes! I can't believe we didn't think about that one before
Broca Divide - eh. not my favorite. the physical fight kind of undermines the sense that they do argue but love each other in the end. just how it reads to me *shrug*

[switch842.livejournal.com]

- any other good credits effects?
Not really. Intervideo just has the basic scroll type credits. Is there something particular you had in mind?

- I still kinda want J&D closeup in earlier, maybe in "brave like soldiers"?
I like that idea. Now which clip? Perhaps from Death Knell when they come up out of the fallen gate? Or is Teal'c in the way too much?

- "I couldn't tell you" I think this one works because that scene has the sort of same feel as a confession, but the next Meridian clip I think works even better, so this one could be changed/moved more than the other, I think
I agree 100% with this. But I'm not sure what would work as well with the "confession" type feeling.

- "just let me hold you" a bit long, but necessary, I think. Maybe if we cut it at "and we'll both fall down"?
That's what I was thinking.

- "fall on me" - could we get this just a couple of seconds earlier in the ep, so we could get more of Daniel's falling motion? Noted

- "ever the same" HEE. This one makes me smile. Hehe. Me too! :-D

- "this doesn't need to be the end" I do like this clip, but it is kinda close to the previous Lost City shot
Hmm... I'm trying to think of what else could go here. Something from The Shroud maybe?

- the other side clip is really long. potential break up - "tell me everything you want me to be" leave as is, change "forever with you" to another clip, back to "forever in me" for the hands and the quick look back and forth, change for "ever the same"
I get what you're saying. But I think if we're going to break it up, it needs to be consistent with what we're doing with the other occurences of this line. As in, not go back to The Other Side. Keep it for the beginning and then bring in something else for the rest.

- I agree on the meh for Lifeboat. Maybe a good place for a late-series clip? Origin, perhaps?
Yeah, Origin could work. Cos it's like Jack is coming back for Daniel. Sort of... :-)

- "you may need me there" balcony is good
- "carry all your weight" I still say Evolution
- "you're no burden" can switch back to Jack carrying Daniel through the gate
Instead of doing the flip back & forth, could it work if we start with Evolution, like Jack coming in at the beginning and picking Daniel up. Then just going to The Light for the through the gate bit?

- "you tide me over" I like Daniel's look at Jack, maybe go a few seconds earlier into the clip so we get that look on "you tide me over" then switch to something new for "a warmth I'll not forget" - ooooh, maybe that one could be the shot near the end of what ep was that, homecoming, where Jack leaves Daniel looking at the gate?
Oooh! I like that!! That could definitely work.

- "but I can only give you love" I'd start this clip maybe just a beat or so later so it doesn't look so long
Yeah. If we're going to break up the bit before, Daniel at the gate can go into that musical bit and then this can start right on the line.

- "fall on me" yeah, I know, lots of Lost City, but this one kinda needs to be there for the falling motion
I think this is fine, too. It's far enough away from the previous Lost City and if we can find something to replace that "This doesn't need to be the end" I think it's fine.

- "tell me everything you want me to be" good clip, though I think it flips to Jack's face just a little too quickly
I'll see if I can get it to switch to Jack on "everything".

[switch842.livejournal.com]

- "forever with you" the time loop reference makes me giggle. hee
- "forever in me" like this one
- "ever the same" is fine
I think this is the best sequence of this bit of the chorus. All the other times, it's really just one clip for all three lines. If we could maybe figure out how to get all the others to be similar to this, I think it would help immensely.

- "forever with you" again, lots of Meridian, but I do think this kinda captures the feel the best. I dunno. *shrug*
- I would switch to a new clip when it says "ever the same" - that wormhole is there just a tad too long
I wanna see if I can get that so Daniel steps through right on that sort of faded "Ever the same" at the end.

- I absolutely love how this part towards the end came out. yeah, another Lost City clip, but that has some great movement
I really like this bit, too. And can I tell you it's a total accident? All the clips at the end are in alphabetical order cos that's how they loaded into the editing software. Very happy accident. LOL

[wraith816.livejournal.com]

Intervideo just has the basic scroll type credits. Is there something particular you had in mind?

It's not a problem; just comes up slightly 'jerky' looking on my computer. Fade in/out, maybe?


Perhaps from Death Knell when they come up out of the fallen gate? Or is Teal'c in the way too much?

Oooh, I like that! I don't mind Teal'c there. I just really kinda wanna see both their faces, unlike the current clip which is kinda too far away.


I agree 100% with this. But I'm not sure what would work as well with the "confession" type feeling.

If we can't come up with anything better, I don't think this is a dire problem, at least. *shrug* We'll think about it.


Maybe if we cut it at "and we'll both fall down"?
That's what I was thinking.

Any idea of what to use for "both fall down"?


Hmm... I'm trying to think of what else could go here. Something from The Shroud maybe?

Maybe. I've only seen that ep once as I was really un-squeeful about S9&10, so I can't really say if it'd have the right feel.


But I think if we're going to break it up, it needs to be consistent with what we're doing with the other occurences of this line.

I get what you're saying. I would really like the hand-holding in here somewhere though because it's such a cute moment. Why do they have to be more adorable than we can fit in 4 minutes or however long the song is? lol


Instead of doing the flip back & forth,

I'm just a little worried about them getting long. Also, I think that Light clip really needs to be over at the end of "you're no burden I assure" - letting it go through that instrumental bar is part of its length problem, I think.


Oooh! I like that!! That could definitely work.

And with that I've used up my stroke of genius for the month. ;-)


Yeah. If we're going to break up the bit before, Daniel at the gate can go into that musical bit and then this can start right on the line.

Agreed.
Also, just a thought for a different way of timing this clip - the music sort of builds up to the word "love". Maybe to fit that building of the music, start the line with Jack walking up to Daniel, and try to time the actual hug on "love"? I don't know if that'd work, but just an idea.


I'll see if I can get it to switch to Jack on "everything".

K, that would work. It'd just be nice to be a little more even.

[wraith816.livejournal.com]

I think this is the best sequence of this bit of the chorus. All the other times, it's really just one clip for all three lines. If we could maybe figure out how to get all the others to be similar to this, I think it would help immensely.

Agreed. Or if we could even just get "forever with you/forever in me" different from "ever the same" it'd be better.


I wanna see if I can get that so Daniel steps through right on that sort of faded "Ever the same" at the end.

Yeah, that'd be better.


And can I tell you it's a total accident? All the clips at the end are in alphabetical order cos that's how they loaded into the editing software.

LOL!
Aside from that, I like it because it fits the music. Even with shortening the other clips, most of them will still probably be longer than these at the end. The bunch of fast clips really fit the "drive" the song has at the end.


I think this time around, there's gonna be a lot more trial and error. Just sticking clips in and seeing how they work kinda thing. Since there's more places where we're not quite sure what we want.

[switch842.livejournal.com]

I think this time around, there's gonna be a lot more trial and error. Just sticking clips in and seeing how they work kinda thing. Since there's more places where we're not quite sure what we want.
Exactly. Which isn't bad. One thing I did was when I thought of a possible episode was quickly flip through stargatecaps to see if there would be a long enough bit that might work. :-) ANyway, I'll get to ripping stuff this weekend and see what else I might be able to come up with.

[wraith816.livejournal.com]

Out of question, what program do you use to rip clips?

[switch842.livejournal.com]

AOA DVD Ripper. I love it as it lets you rip parts and not just whole episodes. Very handy. :-)

[switch842.livejournal.com]

Just though I would let you know that I finally got my ripping program working. So, I should be able to get back to this, soon. Probably September, though. Going on vacation next week, then the Chicago Con, etc. So, soon.... :-)